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[0:00] Well, this week and next week, I'm going to be doing a very short series on the subject of Christian baptism.

[0:12] And there's several reasons for that. And one of them is particularly those of you who have been in the church for some time will know that the church here at Whitby has, from the very beginning, been a church which has accepted and rejoiced in the fact that we have differing views on baptism, Christian baptism with water, which have been practiced and believed within the life of the church.

[0:48] And for that reason, I'm going to read out in a moment a preamble from the church rules. As you are members, we'll hopefully have a copy of that.

[0:59] The other reason is, as you know, I've only been here less than a year. So coming in as a new pastor, it's good, in one sense, to set your stall out of it.

[1:11] And all of you know my convictions already, those of you members particularly, because you called me as a pastor with those convictions. But having talked with the elders about this matter over the last several weeks and months, we felt together it would be good to review and to reassert the Bible's teaching on baptism.

[1:36] It's good for us to be able to have unity. It's good for us to be able to be one together. But that unity cannot be at the cost of ignorance.

[1:48] It must be unity that comes from understanding, unity that comes from grace, from respect. And for many of us, I think when we came to the church here, we probably came with our own particular background, convictions that we've been either converted into from another church, or perhaps just generalised thoughts about this area of baptism.

[2:15] And so my desire ultimately is, as we go through it this week and next week, is that we might be more united. I know that's the desire of the elders.

[2:26] That's my desire as well. Not that we will all agree and have exactly the same view as one another. That isn't necessarily unity. That's conformity.

[2:40] Thank you. And that's not unity. Unity must have differences of opinion to work through. And as an independent evangelical church, that will be the case on several issues, not just baptism.

[2:54] So what I intend to do this week is simply to give quite a brief, in one sense, overview on the teaching that all evangelicals hold to on baptism.

[3:05] And at the end, just a couple of differences, particularly on the mode of baptism, the way that we baptise. Then next week, look at the two positions that we hold here as a church.

[3:17] One we might call credo baptism or believer's baptism. And the other one we may call either paedo baptism or baptism influence or covenant baptism.

[3:28] And just to go to the scriptures. So I'm not particularly going to be looking historically at the positions. Though we could do that and have a very useful discourse about different Christians in the past and groups in the past and views on baptism.

[3:43] But I want us really just to come to the scriptures afresh and to draw from them, not only for our own understanding and therefore hopefully our own respect of one another, but also because whenever we study the scriptures, they do us good.

[3:57] And there's blessing to be had in our understanding more of these truths. Now I have produced some notes. These are exactly the notes I'm going to be using myself tonight.

[4:09] So please take one of those away if you want to. And if there's not enough, there probably isn't quite enough for everybody, then please, I can get some more for next week. And I'm going to do the same next week because I think it's important that we have something that we can go over again at home and perhaps work through and consider and prayerfully think about.

[4:28] So what I'm going to do now, first of all, is to read from the church rules. Two things. They're in the appendix of the church rules of WEC. Just so, I think it's important that I do this because I think it's important that we all understand that this is not me bringing my teaching to the church or a new perspective, if I put it that way, to the church, but something that has always been there and something that over the years, and in fact, if you know the church rules and read them, you'll realize that over the course of several decades, in fact, the church has worked through prayerfully these matters to seek that they might have a right unity and mind on them.

[5:08] This is the beginning of the Whitby Evangelical Church rules from Penix 4. Whitby Evangelical Church recognizes the existence of differing views of baptism held with sincere conviction by Christians of equal commitment to the authority of Scripture.

[5:28] It is the aim of the church to administer baptism in such a way that unity is maintained and equal status given to those who hold different positions on baptism, where these positions are biblically understood.

[5:43] It's important for us just to notice there that there are unbiblical views on baptism, okay? And that's probably why there's confusion in our day and age. We're not talking about the unbiblical views.

[5:54] We're talking about biblical views. It is therefore fundamental to our approach to the administration of baptism that tolerance is seen to be practiced in recognition of the mutual sincerity in which differing convictions are held.

[6:08] We want to make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace, as quoting, of course, Ephesians 4. Achieving this aim will necessitate careful, balanced, and sensitive oversight by the elders.

[6:21] The members of the church are encouraged to commit themselves to a respectful and restrained approach to the subject of baptism on all occasions, avoiding contention and dispute liable to endanger our unity.

[6:35] The subject of baptism should always be addressed in this spirit, and difficulties arising should remain known to the elders for patient pastoral consideration. However, it is appropriate that some basic guidelines on baptism should be set down to which reference can be made when necessary.

[6:53] In producing these guidelines, we have wanted to achieve a balance between clear standards to which the church is committed and a spirit of understanding and helpfulness towards every case which may arise.

[7:04] And it says, in producing these guidelines, it's accepted that they may require amendment or adjustment or further development. And that was written 10 years ago, just over 10 years ago, by the church.

[7:15] And again, if you've got the rules, you'll know what those things go on to say. I'm only going to pick up on one of them, and that's in the matter of teaching baptism and why we're doing that now. And again, this is part of the appendix.

[7:27] The church recognizes that its position of tolerance towards different views of baptism makes the teaching of the subject a matter of great care. Teaching on the subject of baptism should conform to the following guidelines, which is what we're trying to do as elders.

[7:44] The subject of baptism should be taught openly in the normal course of biblical ministry. Points of known difference, liable to be controversial, should be avoided on the wider public occasions and dealt with in the teaching situation of the weeknight meeting or similar times.

[8:03] Areas of known disagreement should be taught with reference to the historic discussion of the subject, with every effort being made to give a balanced statement of different positions taken.

[8:14] Teaching should be undertaken in close cooperation with the entire eldership in order that responsibility is shared for the time, extent, and method of teaching the subject. Those responsible for teaching should be free to make reference to their own views with sensitivity and tolerance to those of a different view within the unity of the church.

[8:33] So you can see how very concerned the elders are and the church has always been that this be not a matter for division. And that is the last thing that I particularly want to do tonight and next week as well.

[8:47] As I say, the purpose and goal is for greater unity, which comes from a greater understanding of one another and a greater appreciation of the convictions that we share together.

[8:57] So now I want us to turn to scripture. And we're going to go through relatively slowly several scriptures, but I'm breaking down what I'm going to be saying into four areas.

[9:14] I wonder, Martin, would you mind if I've got me just a cup of water? Thanks. Now we do have, of course, as a church, a statement of faith, which is intrinsically the FIC statement of faith.

[9:28] And the FIC some years ago, that's why I got mine for 50p, brought out a little booklet called What Evangelicals Believe. I'm not sure if you've got any of these in the church library or not.

[9:39] It's very, very helpful. It goes through our statement of faith, which is shared by all the churches in FIC. And I'm going to read for a moment the statement of faith on what we call the ordinances or the sacraments, which is baptism and the Lord's Supper.

[9:55] And it's very helpful in here because here as well, in the FIC statement of faith, as they explain it and open it up, they talk about the two different positions of baptism as well.

[10:05] And that as an FIC, both are accepted and sought to be understood. Thank you very much, Martin. So this is what we believe, those of you who are church members here, and this is what we as a church stand for on these things.

[10:22] Baptism and the Lord's Supper have been given to the churches by Christ as visible signs of the gospel. Baptism is a symbol of union with Christ and entry into his church, but does not impart spiritual life.

[10:37] The Lord's Supper is a commemoration of Christ's sacrifice, offered once for all and involves no change in the bread and wine. All its blessings are received by faith.

[10:48] So that's the simple statement. So I'm going to look at three things. First of all, its purpose, i.e. why do we baptize?

[11:00] Why do we practice baptism at all? Secondly, its meaning. What does baptism symbolize? Thirdly, its mode, how it should be applied, how we go about baptizing people.

[11:12] And I'm going to look at the three classical positions on that, the three classical practices within the church from Scripture. And then I've got some concluding questions to just this part one.

[11:24] So apart from the thing on the matter of the mode, all these things will be things that we hold dear as believers, as evangelical believers, and all evangelical believers throughout the world hold dear as well.

[11:38] So first of all, why? Why do we baptize? Well, the classic place, of course, is Matthew 28. Please, if you can, follow me in these verses because I think it's helpful that we read these things for ourselves.

[11:52] In fact, to save my voice, I'll probably get volunteers to read out a verse from time to time as well. So here we are, Matthew 28, what we call the Great Commission, verses 19 and 20.

[12:11] If somebody would like to read those two verses for us, please. Therefore, though a great disciple of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

[12:32] And surely, I am with you always, to the very end of the age. Okay, thank you. So the first reason why we baptize is because Christ commands it.

[12:44] Yeah, Christ commands it. Here he is, one of the final instructions to his disciples that we have, recorded for us in the Gospels, and he gives instructions to his disciples that they should baptize other disciples.

[12:57] Okay, so first reason, Jesus commands it. The second reason is in Luke and chapter 3. Luke and chapter 3 and verse 21.

[13:27] Somebody would read that, please. Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened.

[13:41] Okay. So the second reason that we are to baptize is because of the example of our Lord Jesus Christ. He is our example in all aspects of living in a way that is pleasing to God, and he was baptized, therefore we also should be baptized.

[14:00] So first reason, command of Christ. Second reason, the example of Christ. Third reason, if you go to Acts and chapter 2. Acts and chapter 2 and verse 41.

[14:12] Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about 3,000 were added to the number that day.

[14:24] Okay. So the third reason is we baptize because of the example of the New Testament church. And if we want to look in Acts, we can find individuals and groups that are baptized upon reception of the Gospel.

[14:41] So Acts chapter 8 verse 36 is the account of the baptism of the Ethiopian eunuch. As they traveled along, they rode, they came to some water, and the eunuch said, look, here is water, why shouldn't I be baptized?

[14:57] Then over chapter 10 verse 47 and following, Peter said, can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water?

[15:08] They've received the Holy Spirit just as we have. So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. The command of Christ, the example of Christ, the example of the New Testament, and then the teaching of the New Testament.

[15:21] 1 Corinthians chapter 1. 1 Corinthians chapter 1, verses 13 to 16. 13 to 16.

[15:33] If someone would read those verses for us, please. Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you?

[15:44] Were you baptized in the name of Paul? I'm thankful that I didn't baptize any of you except Christmas and Pius. So no one can say, you're baptized into my name.

[15:58] Verse 16. Yes, I also baptized in the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else. Paul Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel.

[16:10] Okay, that's fine. Thank you, Frederick. So there we have the teaching of the New Testament in the sense that here, baptism is spoken of as a normal part of church life. It is, all these points, all these points direct us to practice baptism within our local church.

[16:30] The command of Christ, example of Christ, example of the New Testament, teaching of the New Testament. It's something which is taken for granted by Paul as he writes to the Corinthian believers that they have all been baptized. It's not something that is, in that sense, extraordinary or extra unique.

[16:47] It's something that all believers, and again, as you know, you can look in other parts of the New Testament, many other places too. We're not going to look at every single verse on baptism. Okay, otherwise this would be a very, very long three-year Bible study and I don't want it to be that.

[17:03] So it's the normal experience of every Christian that they should be baptized. And although baptism is important, as we see, and is an act of obedience to Christ, it must not be too highly exalted in our minds and our thinking, i.e.

[17:21] from the example of Paul just here, I can't remember everybody I baptized. That wasn't the essential thing. And again, I did not come, Christ did not send me to baptize. My priority was the gospel.

[17:33] And as we go through, hopefully we will agree with that as well. So the purpose, why baptize? We've laid those things out. Second thing is, it's meaning.

[17:43] First of all, it's purpose, then it's meaning. What does it symbolize? It is agreed by all evangelicals that baptism is but an outward sign or symbol of a spiritual reality or truth.

[17:58] That's why in our statement of faith, we have baptism is a symbol of union with Christ. It is given to the church by Christ as a picture of the blessings that we receive by faith in Christ.

[18:14] Okay? It's a picture for us. It helps us understand what Christ has done for us and does do for us when we put our faith and trust in him. So we're going to look at several verses here, which each one highlighting one aspect of what baptism prefigures or pictures for us.

[18:32] 1 Peter chapter 3. 1 Peter chapter 3 in verse 21. There is also an antitope which now saves us, namely baptism, not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of the good one comes to what God who is the resurrection of Jesus.

[19:02] Okay. An antitype, or as in the NIV, it says, this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also. Not the removal of dirt from the body, but.

[19:14] So we have there, it is a picture of the gospel or the promises of the gospel. Symbolizes baptism that saves. Promises of the gospel.

[19:25] We see also that, is that right? Okay. We see also that baptism with water symbolizes baptism with the Holy Spirit.

[19:39] Turn back to Mark in chapter 1, where the ministry of John the Baptist is, of course, a ministry of baptism with water, yet he declares this truth concerning Christ.

[19:55] Mark in chapter 1 and verse 8. I baptize you with water, but he, speaking of Christ, will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.

[20:06] So baptism is a picture, a symbol of our Holy Spirit baptism. It is, as we have in our statement of faith, a symbol of our union with Christ.

[20:19] Galatians and chapter 3. Galatians and chapter 3 and verse 26.

[20:33] Someone won't. And 27. 26 and 27. I beg your pardon. You are all sons of God who faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who are baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

[20:47] Okay. So there's a union with Christ. Our being clothed with Christ, made one with Christ. Again, other places we could turn to. Baptism is a symbol of our being cleansed or washed of our sins.

[21:02] Acts and chapter 22 and verse 16. Acts chapter 22 and verse 16. Here is Ananias, or rather Paul, recounting his meeting with Ananias after his conversion.

[21:22] And he said, Ananias said to Paul, Acts 22, 16, Now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized, and wash your sins away, calling on his name.

[21:34] Possibly, probably, that's the strongest picture of baptism, of washing or cleansing from sin. Because of the use of water in every day, washing and cleansing from natural dirt.

[21:52] Baptism is also symbolic of our new birth. Titus and chapter 3 and verse 5. Titus and chapter 3 and verse 5.

[22:07] If someone would read that verse for us, please. He saved us not because of righteous things we have done, but because of his mercy.

[22:24] He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit. Okay, so the, saved us through the washing of rebirth. So again, it's a picture of new birth, of rebirth, in that sense.

[22:38] And then, sixthly, in this particular passage, or in this particular section, it symbolizes entrance to the church. 1 Corinthians and chapter 12, verses 12 and 13.

[22:57] 1 Corinthians chapter 12. Again, in our statement of faith, baptism is a symbol of our union with Christ, and entry into his church. So, if someone would read 1 Corinthians 12, 12 and 13 for us, please.

[23:12] Okay, so there we are, being baptized into Christ, and into this one body, which is the church.

[23:39] So, there is a symbol of entrance into the church, the body of God's people. And therefore, again, that is why we are all to be baptized, because we are associating ourselves, acknowledging that we are one, that we are united in that sense of being in Christ.

[24:00] So, that's the purpose and the meaning of baptism. Very simply put, very straightforwardly put, from scripture. Then we come to the question, and this is the section where we have differences of view, but it's important, again, that we understand why those differences exist, that we might ourselves come to our own conviction about them.

[24:23] And that is, it's mode. How should baptism be applied? How should we be baptized? Now, again, all evangelical churches agree, that baptism means the application of water, to a person, and that the water used is not special water, holy water, or containing some magical, mystical, or spiritual properties.

[24:48] However, there is a difference of conviction, over how much water is to be used, and how it is to be applied, to the person. And I'm going to look, very briefly, at the three standard positions, amongst evangelical, Bible-believing Christians.

[25:03] The first, which is particularly the case, amongst independent evangelical church in England, is, of course, immersion. That belief, immersion, as being the proper mode of baptism, comes from the Greek word, the original Greek word, used in the New Testament, translated into English, baptize, which is the Greek word, baptizo.

[25:28] And, in the majority, of the uses of that word, in the New Testament, baptizo means to dip, or to immerse an object in water. So, therefore, those who hold to immersion, would baptize someone, by dipping, or immersing them completely, in water, when they're baptized.

[25:49] The other ground, for this practice, is not only that, the majority of cases, the word means to dip, but also because of Romans 6.

[26:01] Just turn there for a second. Romans 6, and verses 3 and 4, in particular. where we have the suggestion, that baptism symbolizes, our being buried, and raised with Christ.

[26:24] Verse 3, don't you know, don't you know, that all of us, who were baptized, into Christ Jesus, were baptized, into his death. We were therefore, buried with him, through baptism, into death, in order that, just as Christ, was raised from the dead, through the glory, of the Father, we too may live, a new life.

[26:42] Now we've already recognized, that one of the symbols, one of the things, rather that baptism symbolizes, is our unity, or our union with Christ, our union with Christ, being united with him, in his death, in his burial, in his resurrection, in his ascension, in everything.

[27:01] And in this sense, the majority, of evangelicals, would hold that Romans 6, isn't talking about, water baptism, but the spirit baptism, but they see, there is that similarity, or that link between, the reality, baptism being united with Christ, and the picture language, of baptism, by immersion, down into the water, as in burial, up out of the water, as into newness, and resurrection, of life.

[27:32] Now without wishing, in any way to, dismiss that position, at all, it is also true, to be said, that in the New Testament, the word baptizo, does not always mean, to dip, and does not always mean, to, to immerse, on, in several places, it is simply used, to mean, to wash, a particularly, ceremonial washing, Luke, and chapter 11, you don't need to look, to these, you can look at them, later on, they're on the sheet, on the notes as well, and Mark 7, where, the ceremonial washing, is spoken of, and it is, the word, baptismo, which is used, there.

[28:22] Now the other, common, and, accepted practice, amongst, evangelical Christians, for baptism, is pouring, that includes, and necessarily, and simply, the pouring of water, over a person, particularly, from the head, down.

[28:43] Now the grounds, for this belief, come from, the connection, as we've seen already, between baptism, with water, and baptism, with the Holy Spirit. Baptism, with the Holy Spirit, is, almost, always, spoken of, as an outpouring, of the Spirit.

[29:01] We can just look, at two places, for that, Acts 10, 10, and verse 45. Somebody would read, that verse, for us, Acts 10, 45.

[29:19] We've already mentioned, this episode, in Cornelius's family, or household, rather, were baptized, as a group, that were baptized, but the reason, is verse 45.

[29:31] Thank you. And those, the circumcision, who believed, were astonished, as many as, came with Peter, because the gift, of the Holy Spirit, had been poured out, on the Gentiles, altar.

[29:44] Okay, so the gift, of the Holy Spirit, had been poured out, so the baptism, of the Spirit, they received, was the pouring out, of the Spirit, and again, over this time, to Titus, in chapter 3, to say, there's other passages, we can turn to, we're not doing, a full and exhaustive, study of every, single passage, or verse, Titus, in chapter 3, we've already read it, but we'll read it again, verse 5, and 6, this time, verses 5, and 6, of chapter 3, he saved us, not because of, righteous things, we had done, but because of his mercy, he saved us, through the washing, of rebirth, and renewal, by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out, on us generously, through Jesus Christ, our Savior, so that's the reason, why Christians, apply baptism, by pouring, because they see, the connection, with the pouring out, the Holy Spirit, and the pouring out, of water, in baptism, there's one other practice, which I think is important, that we do touch upon, because it is something, which is, and has been, used very often, for baptism, and that is sprinkling, and that practice, again, is simple enough, to understand it, is the sprinkling, of a person, usually their head, with water, again, the grounds, for that belief, are in the scriptures, which connect, our salvation, with being sprinkled, either with the blood, of Christ, or sprinkled, with water, and we just look, at a couple of those, together now,

[31:20] Hebrews chapter 10, and verse 22, Hebrews 10, and verse 22, somebody would read that, for us please, let us draw anew, let us draw anew, with a true heart, and full assurance, of faith, having our hearts, sprinkled, from an evil conscience, and our bodies, washed with pure water, okay, the elect, and the elect, he says in verse 1, who have been chosen, according to the, foreknowledge of God, the Father, through the sanctifying, work of the Spirit, for obedience, to Jesus Christ, and sprinkling, by his blood, and we would understand, of course, that is the, application of the, blood of Christ, dying for us, cleansing us, from our sin, making us right with God, so those are the reasons, why some Christians, sprinkle, and others pour, and others, immerse, or dip, now, we may not be, sorry, we hopefully are convinced, or we may be convinced, that one of these methods, is better than the other, or superior to the other, but it's clear,

[33:04] I hope, that each one of these, methods, or modes of baptism, has biblical support, and comes from, an understanding, of the scriptures, now I'm going to conclude, now with some questions, just four, three questions, which come out of, what we've been studying, now as I say, this has been hopefully, everything I've said, you know all about already, and have known for a long, long time, but I hope it's important, for us to better reaffirm them, when I've done those questions, and we've talked about them, if anybody has questions, of clarification, about what we've done, then please, feel at liberty, to raise them, before we come to, some matters for prayer, but if they're matters, which are not clarification, but something perhaps, a little bit more than that, can you wait till next week, when we will deal with, as I've said, credo baptism, and pedo baptism as well, you're all being very well behaved, I have to say, at the moment, so concluding questions, and they're questions, which come out of, our understanding of baptism, and questions, which people ask, about baptism, the first one, is simply this, does baptism, make somebody a Christian, okay, so in the bank, this morning, and a young woman, was there, and when you speak, to somebody in the bank, of course, they often ask you, what your job is, mine has this, sense of leading, into other things, and she said, oh yes,

[34:31] I was christened, so I'm a Christian, so does baptism, make somebody a Christian, well our statement of faith, which we read at the beginning, says this, baptism is a symbol, of union with Christ, and entry into his church, but does not, impart spiritual life, so the simple, response to that is, no, baptism does not, make somebody a Christian, and being baptized, does not mean, you are a Christian, a person is saved, by grace, through faith, in Christ Jesus, these are things, that we accept, all of us, as evangelicals, Ephesians chapter 2, it is by grace, you have been saved, through faith, that, not of yourselves, so, no good deed, no act of obedience, in that sin, outwardly, can make us right, with God, again Ephesians 2, 9, say through faith, that not of yourselves, but is the gift of God, not of works, so that no one, can boast, and of course,

[35:37] Galatians in chapter 3, verse 11, by the law, no one is made right, before God, so we do not accept, and we do not believe, that being baptized, makes you a Christian, or earns God's favor, or converts, ah, somebody might say though, does baptism guarantee, that I am a Christian, may not make me a Christian, but is a guarantee, that I am a Christian, that I've been baptized, again, this is probably, this thinking of this young lady, of course, wasn't it, that she had been baptized, or christened as a baby, and that therefore, she was now a Christian, or had the guarantee, and as you know, one of the false teachings, that has been much harmful, and confusing, to the understanding of baptism, has been of course, that a baby must be baptized, before they die, or else they won't get into heaven, it's a guarantee, no, of course, you can be a Christian, and not be baptized, you can be baptized, and not be a Christian, all of us,

[36:42] I'm sure, agree with that, there is an example of that, and that is in Acts, in chapter 8, if you turn there for a moment, this example of Simon, the sorcerer, there may be some slight dispute, about, among some Christians, about whether Simon, was ever converted, or not, I'm not going to go into that, necessarily, but what we can see, is that in verse 13, Simon, we're told, Acts 8, himself, believed, and was baptized, and then later on, verse 23, Peter says to him, for I see that you are, full of bitterness, and captive to sin, I would argue, and there are many Christians, who would, that Simon, had not genuinely, been converted, others may feel, that that was the case, but, whether that is so, or not, it is clear, that someone, can be baptized, and not be a Christian, and can be a Christian, not baptized, it's not the guarantee, of salvation, spirit baptism, is not linked, to the actual event, of our conversion, they don't go together, at the same time, do they, and therefore, of course, it cannot give us assurance, that spiritual life, has been received, and accepted, the other question, may be this, does being baptized, make me a better Christian, or mean that God, is more likely, to bless me, does being baptized, make me a better Christian, mean God, is more likely, to bless me, well, we're thrown back, of course, again to the passage, we read in verses, in Acts, sorry,

[38:21] Galatians chapter 3, in Galatians chapter 3, where we're told, that there is no difference, with those, who are in Christ, and again, we, though we spoke, about the picture, of baptism, in Galatians 3, it's obvious, that we are talking, about the spiritual work, the reality, of which baptism, is an outward symbol, you are all, sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus, for all of you, who were baptized, into Christ, have been clothed, have clothed yourselves, with Christ, there is neither, Jew nor Greek, slave nor, free, male nor female, you are all, one in Christ Jesus, now baptism, is, an act of obedience, because we've seen, that it is Christ's command, that is something, of course, that God, desires of us, obedience, but, there are no, extra blessings, that come to us, through baptism, because we have, all the blessings, of the heavenly places, and realms, in Christ Jesus, already, in Christ Jesus, by faith, so, baptism, is, important, it is something, that we are to, experience, as Christians, but it does not, bring to us, a better standing, before God, it does not, bring to us, a more greater assurance, of his love, or, make us, more acceptable, to him, because that is, all of faith, in Christ,

[39:52] Christ, now that's the end, of what I'm going, to say this evening, but, as I've said, and I don't think, it's inappropriate, if I feel, that the question you ask, isn't appropriate, for tonight, then I will simply say, we'll answer that, another time, but are there matters, for clarification, on that so far, things that were not clear, or things that needed, to be enlarged, upon Graham?

[40:21] Yeah, I've got, it's, the two scriptures, I can't remember the other one, but this is in Acts, 2, where it says, where Peter replied, I have to be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, so that your sins, may be forgiven, okay, and, so I think, it's, and, it's, putting, against that, statement, where we don't believe, people are saved, through baptism, yes, and there's another scripture, as well, yes, yes, I mean, if you, have any experience, of the cults, particularly Mormonism, Christadelphianism, they will tie, baptism to salvation, and say that you cannot be saved, unless you are baptized with water, as well as, faith in Christ, and I think, probably Catholicism, would be very much, along the same lines, as that as well, but, no, we don't, as evangelicals, we do not believe, that baptism, saves, or, is a necessary, contributing factor, to salvation, it is, purely through faith, in the Lord Jesus Christ, alone, just ask, yeah,

[41:25] Christ's own baptism, yeah, unique, isn't it, yes, you say it was, as an example, yes, are there other reasons, like to, but it, valid, valid, the ministry of John the Baptist, or was it, obedience to the Father, I think there was, many, many more reasons, I mean Jesus said, in Matthew's account, this must be done, to fulfill all righteousness, yeah, there is, the argument of course, well the Bible teaching of course, that Jesus had to be made, like one of us, he was made sin, that, or he was made, treated as unrighteous, so that we might be treated, as righteous, so in being baptized, Christ was associating himself, and standing with sinful humanity, and therefore, just as he went to the cross, on our behalf, just as he lived a righteous life, on our behalf, so his baptism was on our behalf, but obedience to the Father, yes, verification of the ministry of John, so many different reasons, does that, is that what you wanted, yeah, your last point, your very last point, about obedience, yes, obedience doesn't bring blessings, it's faith that brings the blessings, yes, but show that if you're disobedient, yes,

[42:35] I mean, we're saying with him, trust in the bear, but there's no other way, to be happy, yes, but to trust in the bear, yes, yes, so I would think, you're missing out on blessings, if you're not being obedient, yes, and what I meant, by that, was simply this, that, by being baptized, we are not, changing our standing, before God, are we, we're not making ourselves, more loved by God, or not receiving, somehow God's going to look at us, in a different way, than he did before we were baptized, if we have faith in Christ, but obedience, that's why I included it, is important, and therefore, to be baptized, along with, taking many other things, of course, as well, that God's word calls for from us, is obedience to the Father, which is something, which is, the natural response, of the heart, which loves Christ, and loves God, isn't it, so, yeah, there are blessings, and in fact, baptism, is given to us, as a blessing, to the church, because it is this visible, sign of the promises of God, so it's a visible blessing, it's the gospel, in a picture, and that's why, it's something, which we're to share in, publicly, and we're to do, before the world, can I just ask, yeah, of course, this is about the mold, the three molds, yes, the baptism of children, that I've been to, yes, haven't exactly been, a spring,

[44:02]  I don't know how that's done, you know, it's been, there's a font, yes, and the vicar, puts the finger in, and makes the sign of the cross, on the child, yes, now what is that, is that a type of, no, I would say, that wasn't a ballad, no, just on scripture, yeah, right, in my opinion, it is, I don't believe, that's a biblical baptism, at all, no, the sign of the cross, is, is, a nonsense, whether it's like that, or whether it's, with water, or whether it's with ashes, or whether it's, you know, so unfortunately, no, I believe, I don't think, well, I mean, I don't, if you were to go and say, to the vicar, can you show me, in scripture, where it tells me, that I should put a sign of the cross, for baptism, I'd be very interested, to see what you'd say, probably, yeah, is that right, okay, good, okay, thank you, good, good, good, thank you, you good, well,